“…when two tribes that by conventional reckoning shouldn’t have existed at all—an antiwar wing of the conservative Young Americans for Freedom and a free-market contingent in the leftist Students for a Democratic Society…”
I understand why the latter group shouldn’t exist, but what is surprising about an anti-war wing of Young Americans for Freedom?
The conservative movement at the time was an alliance between classical liberals and anti-communists, with each accepting the other's position on what the other cared about. "Anti-communist" doesn't have to imply pro-war but since the relevant wars, most notably Vietnam, were intended to prevent communist expansion it mostly was assumed to.
Things were different then. Here's what Wikipedia says, and no, I don't trust them on such a topic, but I do trust there is a kernel of truth to this:
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Rebecca E. Klatch writes, "When one young libertarian burned his draft card on the convention floor, the crowd turned into an angry mob and, ultimately, purged all libertarians from YAF. One libertarian faction stormed out of the meeting." Lauren Lassabe Shepherd describes YAF members as "United by anticommunism, Christian moralism, and disdain for bureaucracy and planned economies".
I think it was actually a xerox of his draft card. And "purged all libertarians" is an exaggeration, but the organization became less friendly to libertarians.
I imagine there were some in Korea and WW II who refused to register or serve even as corpsmen. Memory says there was a WW II Supreme Court case on conscientious objectors. And I'm certain there were some in Woodrow's war, and Lincoln's, and probably the 1770s.
I do not remember having a draft card, but I probably did. I do remember being a draft dodger for a couple of days, several years before I joined the Navy.
I acknowledge that it sounds plausible, but given that it’s anti-right politics from Wikipedia, you have far more trust than I that there is a valid “kernel of truth”.
Leslie appears to have believed that one can solve overpopulation with star travel, "The only humane solutions to those two problems are massive birth-control now and mass cheap-stardrive emigration"
She should have read more Heinlein. His "Tunnel in the Sky" started from thinking on this issue. Even if you didn't have to build ships and could just march the population across a threshold, you still couldn't reduce the population at the source.
There is zero chance that one could solve over population as envisioned at the time by building star ships and launching them, even if they made round trips.
The only advantage star travel brings, is that if you can find a nice place to go, some privileged few can move to a less crowded (for now) place.
Why? Search says 360,000 babies are born every day. If one has starliners which can carry 10,000 passengers, you only need 36 departures a day. If each round trip takes a week, that's 250 starliners. Make it 500 to allow for maintenance.
That doesn't seem outrageous, if we have the technology to build starliners. Ocean liners in the 1800s and 1900s were cheap enough for dirt-poor immigrants to cross the Atlantic, and when converted to troopships in WW II, some carried 14,000 troops.
"... a free-market contingent in the leftist Students for a Democratic Society ... ."
Free market, and free speech, too. I thought I saw something similar in parts of the left ca. 1970. Alas, it was not to be.
Comparing then to now reminds me of Marx's quip: History repeats, first as tragedy, then as farce.
The mainstream left was for free speech until the last 10-15 years.
The cover of Kipling's "Cold Iron" was always my favourite song of hers.
A real shame she passed away \:
“…when two tribes that by conventional reckoning shouldn’t have existed at all—an antiwar wing of the conservative Young Americans for Freedom and a free-market contingent in the leftist Students for a Democratic Society…”
I understand why the latter group shouldn’t exist, but what is surprising about an anti-war wing of Young Americans for Freedom?
The conservative movement at the time was an alliance between classical liberals and anti-communists, with each accepting the other's position on what the other cared about. "Anti-communist" doesn't have to imply pro-war but since the relevant wars, most notably Vietnam, were intended to prevent communist expansion it mostly was assumed to.
Things were different then. Here's what Wikipedia says, and no, I don't trust them on such a topic, but I do trust there is a kernel of truth to this:
<<<<
Rebecca E. Klatch writes, "When one young libertarian burned his draft card on the convention floor, the crowd turned into an angry mob and, ultimately, purged all libertarians from YAF. One libertarian faction stormed out of the meeting." Lauren Lassabe Shepherd describes YAF members as "United by anticommunism, Christian moralism, and disdain for bureaucracy and planned economies".
>>>>
I think it was actually a xerox of his draft card. And "purged all libertarians" is an exaggeration, but the organization became less friendly to libertarians.
So you’re saying that John Kerry had a precedent he copied (when he supposedly threw way his medals)? 😏
I imagine there were some in Korea and WW II who refused to register or serve even as corpsmen. Memory says there was a WW II Supreme Court case on conscientious objectors. And I'm certain there were some in Woodrow's war, and Lincoln's, and probably the 1770s.
I do not remember having a draft card, but I probably did. I do remember being a draft dodger for a couple of days, several years before I joined the Navy.
Thanks - I think.
I acknowledge that it sounds plausible, but given that it’s anti-right politics from Wikipedia, you have far more trust than I that there is a valid “kernel of truth”.
Leslie appears to have believed that one can solve overpopulation with star travel, "The only humane solutions to those two problems are massive birth-control now and mass cheap-stardrive emigration"
She should have read more Heinlein. His "Tunnel in the Sky" started from thinking on this issue. Even if you didn't have to build ships and could just march the population across a threshold, you still couldn't reduce the population at the source.
There is zero chance that one could solve over population as envisioned at the time by building star ships and launching them, even if they made round trips.
The only advantage star travel brings, is that if you can find a nice place to go, some privileged few can move to a less crowded (for now) place.
Why? Search says 360,000 babies are born every day. If one has starliners which can carry 10,000 passengers, you only need 36 departures a day. If each round trip takes a week, that's 250 starliners. Make it 500 to allow for maintenance.
That doesn't seem outrageous, if we have the technology to build starliners. Ocean liners in the 1800s and 1900s were cheap enough for dirt-poor immigrants to cross the Atlantic, and when converted to troopships in WW II, some carried 14,000 troops.
Under the ecological thinking of the day, if you started removing 360K per day, the birth rate would increase to 720K per day.
Leslie earned a Special Prometheus Award (https://lfs.org/awards.shtml#:~:text=2014%20%2D%2D-,Leslie%20Fish) for her novella, "Tower of Horses" and filk song, "The Horsetamer's Daughter".
Leslie Fish is one of my favorite artists, It’s weird to see 2 of my favorite niche people in 2 very different worlds collide