Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Michael Beverly's avatar

Ah, well, I wasn't a plumber, but an electrician and for some time, a general contractor. Don't get me started on being in the construction business in California. It's pretty much impossible to follow all the laws and not go bankrupt unless you got really good salespeople who can sell above market costs. Note, this is generally true for interior work, not necessarily exterior work like roofing, pools, and solar, which are impossible to work on in private.

"It would be interesting to know what fraction of jobs that require a permit are done without one."

While what follows is ancedotal evidence, I worked in construction in California going back to about 1984 (some breaks where I did other things, but still, decades of experience from a helper as a teenager to running a licensed general contracting company).

As a small general contractor doing remodels of things like bathrooms and kitchens and as an electrical contractor doing similar work and adding ceiling fans, fixing things, etc, I never once pulled a permit. Never.

Working on big projects as a sub-contractor for a general, like a subdivision tract house, or a commecial project in a shopping mall, yes, we always pulled permits in those cases. If you're wiring a Lens Crafters in a Newport Beach mall, a permit is a must, if you're wiring a 10 million dollar house on the coast in Dana Point, a permit is a must. If you're doing a $50,000 kitchen remodeling job in Anahiem Hills nobody cares. At least nobody I ever met.

Work like what you're talking about, David, interior residential work, stuff not seen from the street, never, ever did I pull a permit or even worry about it for a second.

Chance of getting caught (granted I left California a decade ago, maybe the police state has gotten worse) was in my mind pretty much zero (or very close to it). I mean, who's gonna know? Who's gonna go get a warrant to enter your house to inspect illegal plumbling? Not saying it's never happened, I'm sure it has (but probably with extenuating circumstances).

I always offered clients of bigger projects the option, "Do you want a permit and the associated costs?"

The answer was always no. For small repair stuff, I never even brought it up, nobody wants to get a permit for some small level repairs or putting in some new fans and lighting.

The really funny thing is the for the most part, the permitting and inspection process is worthless or next to worthless (I mean from a practical sense, not a pragmatic one, i.e. insurance and ris) because a bad contractor can do terrible work and still get it passed by the inspector, who doesn't have x-ray vision or an all-knowing mind, and no good contractor, worried about his reputation and having ethics, really cares about pleasing an inspector, they care about doing a good job and pleasing the client.

An obvious solution is to simply have private bonding and insurance, that solves pretty much all problems like when you sell the house, if someone got hurt to defect, etc., etc....but, you know, the government doesn't get it's bite that way.

Urggggg....thinking about construction makes me sad. I wasted a brilliant mind.

Expand full comment
Russ Nelson's avatar

At least in theory, the vent at the top of every drain stack (they can share one vent if possible) allows air to follow the flushed water down the drain rather than pulling air through the drain trap (gurgle, gurgle) or even emptying all the water out of the trap allowing sewer gases to enter the house.

No, it doesn't make sense to require a vent if neither of those problems has surfaced in the last, say, 20 years. They're cheap to put in as the house is being built, but as you've noted, are expensive to retrofit. So ... don't retrofit them if they prove not to be necessary.

Expand full comment
25 more comments...

No posts