Good selection, but my shortlist would include The Sack of the Gods and The Gods of the Copy-book Headings. Kipling is almost Shakespearean in the sheer amount of great poetry he wrote.
Sample (context explanation - Ferguson is what we might call "the deputy ship engineer" on the relief shift, he's been secretly and gradually raising the the rpms of the engine driving the propeller and thus the speed of the ship a few percent to get home a little faster, something most wouldn't notice, excepting chief engineer McAndrew.)
"His wife's at Plymouth.... Seventy-One-Two-Three since he began -
Three turns for Mistress Ferguson.... an' who's to blame the man?"
Another poet who is modern in the sense you mean is Robinson Jeffers, who is also something of a libertarian. Look up, for example, his "Nova," in which he envisions what will happen when the sun explodes (which astronomers now say can't happen, but Jeffers had no way of knowing that, and the poem is valid science fiction for its era), or "Credo," where he contrasts his Asian friend's inward contemplation with his own outward: "The beauty of things was born before eyes and sufficient to itself; the heart-breaking beauty/Will remain when there is no heart to break for it." Or "The Purse-Seine," which foresees a collectivist future through the image of a closing net for industrial scale fishing: "I cannot tell you how beautiful the city appeared, and a little terrible."
I share your enthusiasm for Kipling; I have his Complete Verse, and in fact it's my second copy, as I read the first to destruction. Some year ago I realized that "Cleared" could be sung to the tune of "The Wearing of the Green": I suspect that Kipling, who often used popular songs as a basis for his verse, was well aware of this and intended to give offense by it. "The Mary Gloster" is a brilliant poem, with that bitter, corrupt old man who has wronged nearly everyone in his life, but whose dying word touch one's heart.
But I think any number of his short stories are just as brilliant. I've read "As Easy as A.B.C." and "The Miracle of Purun Bhagat" and "The Church That Was at Antioch" aloud to my wife, and with each of them I have to stop at a key point because I'm about to start weeping aloud.
He has not wronged his son, his wife, or the friend he trusts to get his body to where he wants it. Nor, as far as we can tell, his mistress, employees or customers. The only unambiguous wronging I can think of is of insurance companies early in his career. You could argue that his partner's widow had some claim to his notes, but that's not clear.
This has reminded me I need to read Kipling properly. But for now, I really enjoyed The Mary Gloster. Thank you! On whether to admire the speaker I suppose we admire people who get big, difficult stuff done. That’s why many admire Musk so much I think and disregard his political, er, insights.
Thinking of the way that he used that model of manhood to pull strings to get Jack enlisted in World War I despite his terrible vision, ultimately resulting in his tragic death.
The podcast Empire, with William Dalrymple, has a pretty good recent short series on Kipling in its writers of empire set. He had a fascinating life. (The podcast often falls into applying contemporary standards to historical figures, but avoids that for much of this series as the co-host who does it most often was out ill when it was recorded.)
What I find really surprising is that Kipling is conspiciously missing from the British literature curriculum, whereas his works (both prose and verse) have been included in the literature curriculum in Russia (and the USSR before it) for a long time. "Kim" has been regularly translated into Russian (the first translation hit the bookstores a mere 2 years after the original publication) and is a popular piece of youth literature. The translation of his poem "The Gypsy Trail" is a popular song, albeit one sung to a very different tune (inspired by actual gypsy music) than in England. In Canada, he is regarded as Canadian and is also far more popular than in Britain. As far as I can tell, even in India and Pakistan his popularity surpasses that in Britain.
Thanks for the reading suggestion. I found a Kindle version of the complete works of Rudyard Kipling for $1.99, so it is now in my Kindle and will keep me busy for a while!
Some lines seem to resonate forever, such as; Burn's "A Man’s A Man For A’ That" , Yeat's "And what rough beast, its hour come round at last" and Kipling's "We are not ruled by murderers, but only -- by their friends".
Kim is European, and which gets shown pretty clearly. He has picked up a great deal of Indian mores but psychologically he is free-thinking European, free of Hindu servility and caste mindedness.
He is genetically Irish, culturally Indian at the beginning but not specifically Hindu. He ends up able to switch between English and Indian mind patterns.
Only way to be "culturally Indian at the beginning but not specifically Hindu" is to be Moslem. It is striking that Kim is entirely free from caste prejudice. In this sense, he is European and not Indian at all.
Though, equally strikingly, Kim (and Kipling) notices caste of each person he encounters and makes pertinent observations based upon the caste stereotype.
Good selection, but my shortlist would include The Sack of the Gods and The Gods of the Copy-book Headings. Kipling is almost Shakespearean in the sheer amount of great poetry he wrote.
Possible typo. To quote Ogden Nash:
The one-l lama, he's a priest.
The two-l llama, he's a beast.
Thanks. Fixed.
My favorite: McAndrew's Hymn.
Sample (context explanation - Ferguson is what we might call "the deputy ship engineer" on the relief shift, he's been secretly and gradually raising the the rpms of the engine driving the propeller and thus the speed of the ship a few percent to get home a little faster, something most wouldn't notice, excepting chief engineer McAndrew.)
"His wife's at Plymouth.... Seventy-One-Two-Three since he began -
Three turns for Mistress Ferguson.... an' who's to blame the man?"
Thank you. I missed that.
Note the connection to "The Mary Gloster."
Kipling's poem The Stranger perfectly encapsulates the nativist viewpoint, which few contemporary nativists are able to relate so ably.
Another poet who is modern in the sense you mean is Robinson Jeffers, who is also something of a libertarian. Look up, for example, his "Nova," in which he envisions what will happen when the sun explodes (which astronomers now say can't happen, but Jeffers had no way of knowing that, and the poem is valid science fiction for its era), or "Credo," where he contrasts his Asian friend's inward contemplation with his own outward: "The beauty of things was born before eyes and sufficient to itself; the heart-breaking beauty/Will remain when there is no heart to break for it." Or "The Purse-Seine," which foresees a collectivist future through the image of a closing net for industrial scale fishing: "I cannot tell you how beautiful the city appeared, and a little terrible."
I share your enthusiasm for Kipling; I have his Complete Verse, and in fact it's my second copy, as I read the first to destruction. Some year ago I realized that "Cleared" could be sung to the tune of "The Wearing of the Green": I suspect that Kipling, who often used popular songs as a basis for his verse, was well aware of this and intended to give offense by it. "The Mary Gloster" is a brilliant poem, with that bitter, corrupt old man who has wronged nearly everyone in his life, but whose dying word touch one's heart.
But I think any number of his short stories are just as brilliant. I've read "As Easy as A.B.C." and "The Miracle of Purun Bhagat" and "The Church That Was at Antioch" aloud to my wife, and with each of them I have to stop at a key point because I'm about to start weeping aloud.
I have that problem reciting the "Mary Gloster."
He has not wronged his son, his wife, or the friend he trusts to get his body to where he wants it. Nor, as far as we can tell, his mistress, employees or customers. The only unambiguous wronging I can think of is of insurance companies early in his career. You could argue that his partner's widow had some claim to his notes, but that's not clear.
This has reminded me I need to read Kipling properly. But for now, I really enjoyed The Mary Gloster. Thank you! On whether to admire the speaker I suppose we admire people who get big, difficult stuff done. That’s why many admire Musk so much I think and disregard his political, er, insights.
What do you think about the tragedy of Kipling's son and how it is wrapped up in the central message in "If"?
I don't see the connection.
On the other hand I do see a link between the death of his daughter and the _Just So Stories_.
For far--oh, very far behind,
So far she cannot call to him,
Comes Tegumai alone to find
The daughter that was all to him!
"Do your work with your heart's blood, but no need to let it show,"
Thinking of the way that he used that model of manhood to pull strings to get Jack enlisted in World War I despite his terrible vision, ultimately resulting in his tragic death.
Was his death due to his bad vision?
Hard to know. He would not have been allowed into the army were it not for Rudyard's intercession.
I'm also thinking of the couplet in Epitaphs of the War where he wrote: "If any question why we died,/Tell them, because our fathers lied."
I interpret that as a comment on past foreign policy. His father interceded but didn't lie.
This was great. Thanks for sharing!
The podcast Empire, with William Dalrymple, has a pretty good recent short series on Kipling in its writers of empire set. He had a fascinating life. (The podcast often falls into applying contemporary standards to historical figures, but avoids that for much of this series as the co-host who does it most often was out ill when it was recorded.)
What I find really surprising is that Kipling is conspiciously missing from the British literature curriculum, whereas his works (both prose and verse) have been included in the literature curriculum in Russia (and the USSR before it) for a long time. "Kim" has been regularly translated into Russian (the first translation hit the bookstores a mere 2 years after the original publication) and is a popular piece of youth literature. The translation of his poem "The Gypsy Trail" is a popular song, albeit one sung to a very different tune (inspired by actual gypsy music) than in England. In Canada, he is regarded as Canadian and is also far more popular than in Britain. As far as I can tell, even in India and Pakistan his popularity surpasses that in Britain.
Thanks for expanding my reading list!
Thanks for the reading suggestion. I found a Kindle version of the complete works of Rudyard Kipling for $1.99, so it is now in my Kindle and will keep me busy for a while!
Excellent, thanks!
Some lines seem to resonate forever, such as; Burn's "A Man’s A Man For A’ That" , Yeat's "And what rough beast, its hour come round at last" and Kipling's "We are not ruled by murderers, but only -- by their friends".
Kim is European, and which gets shown pretty clearly. He has picked up a great deal of Indian mores but psychologically he is free-thinking European, free of Hindu servility and caste mindedness.
He is genetically Irish, culturally Indian at the beginning but not specifically Hindu. He ends up able to switch between English and Indian mind patterns.
Only way to be "culturally Indian at the beginning but not specifically Hindu" is to be Moslem. It is striking that Kim is entirely free from caste prejudice. In this sense, he is European and not Indian at all.
Though, equally strikingly, Kim (and Kipling) notices caste of each person he encounters and makes pertinent observations based upon the caste stereotype.
To my great delight, I've recently discovered this little known poem of his:
https://www.heretical.com/miscella/kipling2.html
Interesting, perhaps topical, but not one of his better works.
A personal point of view?
I think Song of the Fifth River is better.
Kipling wrote so many memorable poems - I'll probably have a different set of favorites tomorrow. But three I particularly like:
The Sea and the Hills - one of the better pieces of alliterative poetry in modern English. Also, as a hillman myself, accurate.
The Supports -
Heart may fail, and Strength outwear, and Purpose turn to Loathing,
But the everyday affair of business, meals, and closing,
Builds the bulkhead ‘twixt Despair and the Edge of Nothing.
And, of course, the Sons of Martha - "The sons of Mary seldom bother..."