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Mallard's avatar

> the idea that our moral beliefs are imperfect perceptions of moral truth. That requires the existence of a moral reality separate from physical reality. The existence of something not explainable as part of physical reality makes that belief more plausible.

I would think that moral beliefs may not be 'real' the same way physical reality is, and therefore do not provide reason to postulate some parallel meta world, but that does not mean that the model of moral perception approximating moral truth, at least as briefly sketched here, is illegitimate. One can think of moral beliefs as being perspectives on physical reality. Perspectives may be part of an internally significant system, but they do not require some shadow realm to exist.

E.g. since you gave the example of preferences of chocolate vs. vanilla, I think that taste is actually a good example, although the *example* chocolate vs. vanilla is trivial, so it obfuscates the point.

Taste is a perspective on physical phenomena, but that is therefore not as "real" as the phenomena themselves, but it hardly arbitrary.

Considering the respective taste of chocolate and poop may be instructive. Although not as objective as say, the charge of an electron, the bad taste of poop does need to be an individual axiom - it fits logically within a larger web of deeper preferences, and could probably be deduced from them, just as the properties of a physical object could be deduced from the rules governing physical reality.

It may not be 'wrong' to murder someone the same way it is wrong that an apple falling off a tree will fly off into space instead of towards the ground, but murder could still be wrong the same way poop, or corpse flower are untasty. This is perfectly meaningful to a person interacting with reality, even if it is not as 'real' as reality itself.

More to the point though, I don't see why the mystery of consciousness should necessarily affect the "mystery of morality." Even if there exists an ethereal consciousness divorced from the physical world, why should relate to a model of moral realism?

As you yourself note in that post, even positing a god, which could be an ethereal consciousness divorced from the physical world, does not preclude the need for independent moral axioms - even if the god instructs them, you still need an axiom that states that the divine should be obeyed.

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Mallard's avatar

>It seems likely that the mind depends on the brain and dies when the body dies. The effect on the mind of things happening to the brain short of dying — alcohol or other drugs in the bloodstream or a blow to the skull — supports that conjecture. I know of no positive evidence against it. But as long as the nature of consciousness is a mystery to me, I cannot be certain.

More trivially, one could say that as long as anything remains unknown in the universe, that we cannot be certain of anything, since that unknown thing in the universe might affect anything. But this is trivially true about anything and therefore does not reflect any actual uncertainty with a given proposition.

Regarding the specific proposition at hand, I don't see why the existence of questions about consciousness in general should be a reason to consider the proposition that consciousness is not dependent on physical hardware and processes, given the stated evidence that it is.

This seems equivalent to saying "It seems likely that Tylenol depends on physically interacting with the body to work, so one person taking a Tylenol could not cure a different person's headache. I know of no positive evidence against it. But as long as the mechanism of action of Tylenol is a mystery to me, I cannot be certain." [Note that this is about *my knowledge of the MOA of Tylenol - it is not dependent on someone else knowing the MOA.]

Am I missing some reason why the point about consciousness is different?

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